Economics of home wind turbines

[Admin Mal]

laura said:

i have kept an article from sunday times re pay back costs on manufactured turbines...not very cheering i`m afraid.

it states various figures between 32 and 70 years to pay back installation costs....mind you i think double glazing takes about 30 years to pay off.

We were looking at the Highlands & Islands 'Let's Talk Renewables' leaflet which went out to households a wee while back.

There is a case study featuring a couple from Caithness who have installed a wind turbine at their home. Their two reasons for doing so, were to help cut carbon emissions and to cut their fuel bills.

They opted for a Proven 6kw turbine which cost £18k, £4k of which was a grant <max grant>, which leaves £14k cost. They proudly state that they have 'saved' £500 over the 2 years that they've had the turbine - basically £250 pa - and state that, "Wind is definitely very cost-effective - providing you have the wind!"

Am I missing something here? Doesn't this mean that it will take them 56 years to have recouped the cost, even before saving anything? And what is the expected lifespan of a domestic wind turbine? I doubt if it's 56 years, in which case you'd be looking at a replacement..

[mrgluss]

Yip - payback not great, but then some folk would spend that on a car, maybe even a second car they don't use every day (I know that's the minority, but it does happen). Why not buy a wind turbine instead and cut your costs while reducing your carbon footprint? I was thinking about one for my old age, on the assumption that fuel costs will continue to go up, and I could regard it as "forward-buying" my energy for the next 20 years!

[Admin Mal]

Hmm, I don't know.. I don't see how it can cut your costs when it could take up to 70 years to pay back the capital costs. <Uswitch survey> -
business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/consumer_affairs/article1400189.ece

The article states, "You might spend £13,000 after your grant on a wind turbine capable of generating enough to sell back to your supplier, but you are unlikely to make the costs back in your lifetime. You would make an average of only £14 a year by selling your surplus back, and you would also save £388 on your energy bills. But it would still take 32 years to recoup your set-up costs."

Proven say that "10 years pay back might be achieved or even exceeded." <big might! > I can't see that, but I suppose it depends on various factors, including size of turbine, output generated, grants, rocs, etc etc. Proven have a 2 yr guarantee and an expected lifespan of 25 years. <Blades might be around 10 yrs or less.>

From the above Times articles - Uswitch: “Microgeneration remains cost-prohibitive for the majority of UK consumers and is really best for those who want to create a self-sufficient lifestyle and can afford to do so.”

Also, as mentioned before in the 'build your own turbine' thread, the need to ensure your house is energy efficient - <from same article> Dave Sowden, chief executive of the Micropower council, also urges caution. He said: “People should only consider microgeneration after they have made every effort to ensure their homes are as energy efficient as possible.”

[mrgluss]

I agree, the payback isn't great in financial terms, although I think in Shetland with the high cost of fossil fuel and the excellent wind generation conditions, it's much better than national articles would suggest. Borrowing the money to do it certainly wouldn't make much sense, but for those with disposable capital, I still think it's a more useful thing to do than buying a timeshare in Tenerife for example. It all depends what you want out of life. We should promote it as a lifestyle choice perhaps. I can hear the conversation at cocktail parties (not that I've ever been to one so I'll just have to imagine) "Oh my dear, I'm afraid Eleanor can only afford fossil fuels - how last century!". ;D

Maybe it's a case of not economically viable yet - unless we go nuclear the cost of energy is just going to keep on rising (particularly as the North Sea runs out and the Russians start turning the screws). The future is not bright for fossil fuel generation so we better hope some alternative is found soon, never mind the whole global warming thang. (Doom gloom mutter mutter, Whaar's me tushkar?)

[laura]

I agree with mrgluss,so won`t repeat all the points...except fuel costs will escalate in the future.

for us,having been,and always will be,on a low income, building our own wind turbine is the only answer. in fact it will be several small ones.

plus it they will probably be our only "pension"...unless i bump off rich relative...no she`s too closely guarded

[Admin Mal]

I pretty well agree with most of it as well and despite sounding negative about the payback on a wind turbine, wouldn't rule microgeneration out completely. Green energy is a hot issue now and renewable techology will no doubt keep advancing and costs will probably come down.

[heimdal]

laura said:

...except fuel costs will escalate in the future.

Then it's back to the peat hill, tushkars at the ready ;D or is that a no, no as it's releasing greenhouse gases. I sometimes wonder if we are not wasting our time trying to save the planet when tony b liar is willing to spend X billions in a new way to destroy it quicker

[benjiesmum]

I read all the above with interest and had a quick look on the tinternet only to discover that there are some quite small wind turbines you can buy and that there was one in the locality in Holywell (although they've spelt it Hollywell). I've asked for more details about where it is exactly as they arenot letting on:

www.segen.co.uk/eng/wind/installations.htm

Click on the map to see various small installations. Wonder what they cost???

[mally]

I found some on Ebay. Just type "Wind turbine" into the search box.

Prices vary from a couple of hundred pounds to a few grand.

[peterj]

Speaking of ebay, there's a pretty easy to read guide on the subject here

reviews.ebay.com/Power-in-the-Wind-facts-about-wind-power_W0QQugidZ10000000001452006

I'd say the guy that wrote it knows what he's talking about, and is pretty up front about some of the issues considering that he is trying to sell related stuff.

Well worth a quick read if you are in the early stages of thinking about buying (or building) one.

On the economics question (talking grid connected which would be the most likely type for most Shetlanders), I understand that one of the biggest problems in the UK is the relatively low price you get for anything sent back into the grid. That's a political issue which has a better than average chance of improving as time goes on.

Another political question would be the cost of generation in Shetland. It used to (talking about the 80's here) be hugely subsidised, to the extent that I am fairly sure every unit generated was sold at a loss. If that is still the case, a simple political decision to charge full cost (as happened to distribution charges in rural and remote NZ in the 90's for example), the economics of owning your own wind turbine would very suddenly change.

[allen]

[/quote]
Then it's back to the peat hill, tushkars at the ready ;D or is that a no, no as it's releasing greenhouse gases. [/quote]

see todays news at
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6502239.stm

[bonna]

Dat'll be dat dan bairns - no allowed ta cut twartree paets i your ain paethill - life raelly will be no wirt livin in Shetland !

I recall a quote, I think from Schei & Moberg's "Shetland", to the effect that sheep and peat were the two things that had made human occupation of Shetland tenable down the centuries.

Of course nowadays, we can all work for "da cooncil", and warm ourselves with clever high-tech stuff, so that's all old hat............isn't it?