|
Post by bonna on Mar 26, 2007 15:48:36 GMT 1
mhay, du's confusin me! Whaar in Shetland "does not have the required infrastructure to feed into the NG", idder as da bits dat dunna hae mains power (Foula, Fair Isle)? An fae whit du dan goes on ta say, dir had it onywye, becis dey edder will or winna be an interconnector.
|
|
|
Post by maree on Mar 26, 2007 21:13:49 GMT 1
What I was trying to say is dat the power lines into some rural areas "thin" down from the main branches, so they cannot carry enough load for some places to be able to "send" power back to the grid from a windturbine.
In cases like this, one answer would be community turbines to convert wind 2 heat........and folk would receive cash from the Renewable Obligation Certificates generated from selling "green energy" to electricity producers with no means to produce power from renewables.
Another solution would be for folk to lobby SSE to increase the load capacity of rural cables, but my fear is that if the interconnecter comes to Shetland, the need for SSE to buy power fae remote rural areas will be eliminated.....becas Central Shetland will produce plenty. On da idder hand if the interconnector doesn't come becis the Central Shetland project fails to get planning permission, the idea of Shetland becoming a "powerhouse" for renewables will fade away fast, causing SSE to loose interest in Shetland and possiblly capital works such as line upgrades.
I'm maybe still bein very clear, but I keen what I mean. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Apr 5, 2007 15:46:01 GMT 1
I note from the What's On that it's Northmavine's chance to hear the Viking Energy proposals at 7.30pm in Ollaberry Hall on the 16th April.
That should be an interesting night.
|
|
|
Post by bonna on Apr 6, 2007 10:57:03 GMT 1
Sorry, mhay, no been on dis for a few days so only read de reply noo.
I see fine whit du's meanin noo, an it does seem ta be a case o "damned if you do an damned if you dunna".
I doot "wind ta heat" is da answer!
And yes, I hoop twartree folk turn up at Ollaberry ta air dir views. As folk dat's no bein very directly affected by VE's proposals, Nortmavine folk sood be able ta tak a dispassionate view........maybe??
|
|
peterj
Peerie Magnie
Posts: 53
|
Post by peterj on Apr 8, 2007 9:28:19 GMT 1
On da line capacity - onywhaar that has a 3 phase (3 wire) high voltage line has plenty of capacity ta tak modest wind turbine output o da kind o capacity at a typical individual or community wid pit up. If you consider at every hoose connected ta a power line taks aboot 2Kw on average, dan multiply dat by da number o hooses on ony branch line you get a rough idea o how much line capacity dir is ta send da edder way.
If you are lookin at a bigger installation dan da costs o upgradin da SSE lines ower da relatively short distances you hae in Shetland is smaa compared ta maest o da world.
Da biggest advantage o power ta heat turbines is dat you get da full "price" for every unit o electricity at you dunna buy fae SSE, compared ta a fraction if you try ta sel it back ta dem. I also suspect dat da capital cost o a power ta heat turbine is significantly lower dan a grid connected wan, since you dunna hae ta maintain onything laek da same power quality (voltage/frequency) when aa you are supplying is a muckle resistor.
|
|
|
Post by bonna on Apr 8, 2007 10:18:35 GMT 1
I tink some "end o da line" places (laek Nort Roe?) are just on single-phase supply, but dey canna be mony places o ony size in dat situation.
Excuse da technical ignorance - can you "over-produce" electricity for a wind-to-heat installation? How do you match up turbine size wi storage heater load, say? For you wid want your heaters no ta be "under-supplied" whan dey wirna mains-connected.......
Probably haverin!
|
|
|
Post by maree on Apr 8, 2007 14:00:01 GMT 1
The 6kw wind2heat turbine can produce electricity for 15kw of storage heaters. In the case of Sullom Hall, we divided this number by the number and size of rooms to be heated to give us varying sizes of storage heater depending on area. This heating is supplied directly by the wind turbine heat controller.
During warm, windy days in the summer......of which there are a few.... the hall can get brawly hot, but heaters and the turbine run continuously so we open da windows!! This is not a "waste" of energy as we will, hopefully, receive Renewable Obligation Certificates (ROCs). We are paid for production, so it's not wasteful to get rid of excess heat.
During the calm, winter months......of which there are few.....if the turbine can't produce enough energy to bring the heaters up to the required levels we revert back to our old heating system as an aid to raise the temperature. It's rare that you're ever beginning from the point of the hall being unheated at all so even if we have to use the old system, the heating job has at least partially begun resulting in the old heaters being used for a shorter period of time than previously.
I think we've used wir old heaters twice this winter. Other halls have different heating systems with the turbine such as blowers or underfloor heating.
|
|
|
Post by bonna on Apr 8, 2007 15:32:15 GMT 1
Soonds pretty good......an du's kinda answered my question (da silly een!) Of coorse you wid still keep an alternative heating system wired ta da mains for those calm moments.
Ever heard o onybody tinkin o maybe a peerier turbine for domestic application?
|
|
|
Post by maree on Apr 8, 2007 15:48:12 GMT 1
The 6 kw turbine would be brawly good for domestic application and I keen someen dats nearly in da process of installation. It can also be used to heat water for da hoose as well as supply energy for heating. Perhaps a smallholder/crofter could also heat a greenhouse/polytunnel or lambie hoose in addition to home heating?
With regard to ROCs, Ofgem are presently disputing the type of meters installed with the turbines so we're all waiting to hear if we'll get wir payments for what we've produced so far. I also think that VAT on the purchase of turbines has been or will be reduced to 5% given that the turbines will be used as heating.
|
|
|
Post by bonna on Apr 10, 2007 1:46:10 GMT 1
Something ta tink aboot, dan.
I believe 10-year payback times are bein quoted, bit I assume dat's at da day's electricity prices. If I towt dey widna geng up avaa ida nixt 10 year I wid be a very plaesed boy indeed, so I redder doot da 10-year payback will rapidly reduce, makkin it an even better proposition.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Mal on Apr 10, 2007 8:35:09 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by maree on Apr 10, 2007 14:22:17 GMT 1
I'll joost nip in we a peerie reply bonna afore wir moved on! With regard to payback, it depends on how you look at it. Electricity/oil never seems to get any cheaper so it seems unlikely that whatever your current method of heating is will be much cheaper in the near future. If you tak wind2heat for example. Almost 100% of the heating for the building - and probably water heating too - can be produced via the turbine, so you'd be saving most of your current annual heating costs. As I've mentioned before ROCs........which I think are available to anyone producing "green energy", providing you have an ofgem approved meter!.....also enables folk to generate cash by selling the certificates to those who need to make up their green energy production quotas. The approx. selling price for ROCs at the moment is about £40.00 per Mw/h which could generate an income of aboot £400 - £500 per annum. Taking all this into consideration, I would say a 10 year payback time is no far off.
|
|
|
Post by allen on May 2, 2007 20:17:43 GMT 1
How's this for a talking point and a prediction If the windfarm project happens and we get a cable to Scotland in about 20 years time Viking Energy will announce that the windfarm is approaching the end of its useful life and will be un-economic to replace. In order to stay solvent and to utilise the cable it will start a consultation process for another green energy scheme to bring income to Shetland. This will involve building in the North Mainland the of one of the new generation nuclear power stations that are just coming off the drawing board. Think I'm joking … A Geological Survey report has identified rocks in Shetland as being suitable for the storage of nuclear waste.
|
|
|
Post by bonna on May 3, 2007 10:31:53 GMT 1
Excellent! Maybe wir grandbairns'll find some decent work then.
Picture it:
Aald Daa - "Weel peerie Johnnie, is du still vergin awa at yun keetchen porterin bruck at yun fule Tirval's Tirricks theme park, or ir dey promoted dee ta wearin een o yun muckle tirrick costumes yit? Whan I wis dy age I wis an apprentice wi BP an makkin a right wage - ah.. da guid aald days"
PJ - "Naa, Granda, a'm been taen on at da new power station at Urafirth - makkin some rael money noo. Mebbe a'll be able ta tink aboot a hoose o me ain shune"
Think I'm joking?
|
|
|
Post by bonna on Jul 24, 2007 3:19:29 GMT 1
Killing time last week "aboot da night" (taxi-ing for da better half on a night oot in toon), I took a stroll to one of Shetland's many Gossa Waters - this one in da hills just sooth-wast of Lerwick.
What a lovely and peaceful spot. Although within earshot of da toon traffic on such a still night, it was alive with birdlife of many kinds, most of which was fairly indignant at the sight of an obviously very rare human intruder. I wandered around the loch whilst admiring the beautiful western sky, the sunset positively enhanced by the silhouettes of the Burradale towers - not that they were doing much that night.
The walk in from the Hollanders Knowe was made a little more difficult, but much more interesting, by another very recent and welcome innovation, namely ungrazed hill courtesy of the Single Farm Payment.
Conclusion - modern Shetland is a very beautiful and very unspoiled place, even in the heart of "da central belt". There is utterly no reason why it shouldn't remain so while embracing all the advantages of renewable energy technology.
|
|