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Post by Pat on Oct 8, 2006 10:21:20 GMT 1
Perhaps this should be a subject on its own but... I have just come across a piece of writing that, while being very nostalgic is none the less very interesting. A man called Samuel Bamford who collected south Lancashire dialect words wrote it in 1854.
"There is... a pleasure in the contemplation, the remembrance, as it were, through history, of old people who have left the place we live in, who have quitted the ground we occupy, who have just, as it were, gone out and shut the door of the house after them before we got in. We wish to recal [sic] them; we would they had stayed a little longer; that they had been there when we arrived. We go to the door and look for them; up the street, down the lane, over the meadow, by the wood; but the old folks are not to be seen high or low, far or near; and we return to our room disappointed. We picture to ourselves the pleasant time we would have had were they beside us; how we should have seen the cut of their apparel, their broad hats, and quaint lappels [sic], their 'buckles and shoon'; and heard their old tales and stories, and caught the tones of their voice, and the accent of their uncouth words. But it cannot be; they are gone, and there is no return: we have not seen them, we shall never see them; and again we are saddened and disappointed. A book, however in the midst of our regret, attracts our notice; we open it, and herein we find, not only the portraiture of those we have been regretting, but their old stories, their uncouth words, and almost the tones of their voice are therein preserved for us. We sit down happy in the prize, and enjoy the mental pleasure, which it provides. Such a book would I place on the shelf of the old house ere I depart. "
I think it is interesting to see that as far back as 1854 people were worried that dialect and language was under threat and saw how precious a commodity it is to express identity and pass things on.
I'm getting too serious here...
Pat
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Post by patioman on Oct 8, 2006 15:46:27 GMT 1
This reply is not written in the profound and literary manner of Samuel Bamford but here goes.
I have at times posted replies in my native accent/dialect of South Derbyshire, written as it sounds.
It as been diluted over the years by influxes of redundant mine workers from Scotland and County Durham, we had to temper it so as to be understood.
In the fifties people began to find other work in neighboring Burton on Trent, here were employed many people from Pakistan and the Caribbean, so adjustments were necessary again.
With house prices in towns in nearby Warwickshire, such as Tamworth, Coventry and even Birmingham being so high people from there began to move into South Derbyshire.
Now when walking down the local High Street there is a confusion of accents, only when uttered by a senior citizen do you hear the purity of the South Derbyshire accent, which is a great pity really, but I fear an irreversible fact of life.
To further the shortened lifespan of my treasured heritage I will from time to time post on here in South Derbyshire, as I do sometimes when texting my son at his place of work, much to the amusement of his colleagues.
The main drawback of texting in this manner is you can not use the predictive text facility or it would over heat the mobile telephone.
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Post by Admin Mal on Oct 8, 2006 18:05:33 GMT 1
It is interesting, especially if you live in an old house, to think about those who have lived there before you. If your house has stood for many years, it makes you consider that, while you may be the owner, you are really a custodian for your period in time.
In the same vein, you also become a part of the history of your house or place. Wouldn't it be fascinating to have a book which stayed with the house - containing, as Pat's article says, not only the portraiture of past occupants but a taste of their language and their stories? Each new occupant could add to it.
In terms of dialect, it does seem a shame if it becomes diluted and, in some cases, lost. Language in general is an ever-changing beast though, with new words added and old words slipping out of use - that's what makes language exciting.
I wonder, with the increase in people's movements all over the world and the subsequent mixing of commmunities - will local or regional dialects become so watered down in time that in the future we all may be speaking in the same homogeneous way?
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Post by davidjam on Oct 8, 2006 18:14:04 GMT 1
I wonder, with the increase in people's movements all over the world and the subsequent mixing of commmunities - will local or regional dialects become so watered down in time that in the future we all may be speaking in the same homogeneous way? That is a possibility in my opinion. Dialect can be quite the pest though when in Edinburgh... I slip back and fore between shetlandy lilt to my 'watered down lack of dialect/accent' for all the edinburgers. I watched a really good programme on dialects several months ago (start of the year maybe)... it was on BBC2, I think the programme revolved around Scots as a language... can't remember now. onywye
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Post by Pat on Oct 8, 2006 19:13:13 GMT 1
Global identity - shudder... Vive la differance!
There is a widely held belief that it would make economic sense for us all to speak the same language. I disagree, I think it would be better if we all learned a second language (hopefully what is happening in today's classrooms). It used to happen once in Shetland. People learned to speak the language of the traders and vice versa e.g. Dutch.
Patioman, keep writing bits in your dialect, I think it's excellent.
Fiona, I agree about the book - what a lovely idea. As you know, oral history, peoples voices and their stories are my true passion. It would be good to leave a voice too - perhaps a welcome.
David, I watched bits of that programme too. It seemed very good.
Have a good rest of your day.
Pat
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Post by maree on Oct 8, 2006 22:45:01 GMT 1
I wonder, with the increase in people's movements all over the world and the subsequent mixing of commmunities - will local or regional dialects become so watered down in time that in the future we all may be speaking in the same homogeneous way? I hope not. Regional accents/dialect are part of folks identity and helps link folk to place. It's good to hear regional accents/dialects in todays media world........Radio Orkney is a particular favourite of mine and a decade ago it was nearly worth being arrested in Shetland just to hear the Western Isles accent.......swwooooooooon!
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Post by Pat on Oct 8, 2006 22:57:12 GMT 1
Noo dan - lat me tink Arrested in Shetland, Western Isles accent... uniform perhaps? Pat
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Post by Admin Mal on Oct 9, 2006 9:23:39 GMT 1
Jings crivvens an' help ma boab! <Now that is an Oor Wullie-ism and Oor Wullie <along with Dennis the Menace et al> is a Dundee creation and I'm a Dundonian so there's yer regional connection.. > Could mhay have been loitering with intent..... to listen to a Western Isles' policeman's dulcet tones... ? ;D
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Post by Admin Mal on Oct 9, 2006 9:41:27 GMT 1
I hope not. Regional accents/dialect are part of folks identity and helps link folk to place. Talking about people moving all over the place, it can be quite difficult to maintain your accent & dialect when you move away from your home area, especially when you have lived somewhere else for a larger part of your life. I've lived longer in Shetland than in Dundee, am surrounded by the Shetland accent<s> and dialect and don't come into contact with that many Dundonians here! <yes, there are a few!> My Dundonian accent was never that strong but goodness knows what my accent is now! I didn't realise, but gradually I'd stopped using dialect words from Dundee. It was only when a friend visited and she used some, that I realised I'd stopped. But I suppose it was just common sense - the whole point of language is communication and if you can't make yourself understood... So eh'm sittin' here with meh baffies on an' lookin' oot the windae at a dub. Eh ken there are loadsa burds but it seems t'be mair speuggies splashin' in the dub. <very bad Dundonian!!>
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Post by patioman on Oct 9, 2006 11:06:52 GMT 1
I will try. Is the latter part of your post referring to a "load of sparrows splashing in the tub/birdbath"
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Post by Admin Mal on Oct 9, 2006 13:04:54 GMT 1
Close. A dub is a puddle.
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Post by davidjam on Oct 10, 2006 1:46:18 GMT 1
rub a dub dub... three men in a puddle Somethings not right...
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Post by specialk on Oct 10, 2006 12:47:08 GMT 1
i got compaired to a japanese/chinese person the other day when talking to a fellow shetlander (she has a broad accent and for some reason that always makes me turn broad again) the person in question made fun of the fact i said "yin wan" only when he said it i heard shetland, everyone else in the room heard chinese?!!
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Post by Admin Mal on Oct 10, 2006 13:33:18 GMT 1
LOL!! Hilarious!! <still giggling..>
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Post by patioman on Oct 10, 2006 13:33:27 GMT 1
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